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Posted by Shane Ewen <sde3@leicester.ac.uk> No one seems to recognise the possibility of comparative analysis being applied to different periods within the same country, or even between different cities and/or localities as regards certain policy measures and implementation. For instance, taking Swedish housing policy both pre- and post-World War II, it is clear that there is scope for relevant comparison: during the 1920s and some of the '30s, Swedish housing, particularly in Stockholm, was largely provided by private enterprise. Urban governments were confined to merely providing poor relief, as housing was not viewed as a social necessity until the Social Democrats came into power in 1932. There was, however, a shift in policy and agency implementation from about 1942: much more emphasis was put on the local authorities to provide the bulk of housing, which was now regarded as essential to offset the growing dispute between capital and labour. Private enterprise was either stifled through an elaborate loans and mortgages system or incorporated into the "public utility companies" along with local authorities. So, it is axiomatic that one must be careful when espousing the merits of international historical comparison not to ignore or neglect the possibilities of comparison within an individual country. I would be happy to begin a discussion on this premise, as I think it is becoming increasingly neglected, not solely on H-Urban but in books as well. Let's use lots of examples to reiterate this point, or further discussion on Sweden or Stockholm (or any other cities, e.g., Malmo). Shane Ewen Centre for Urban History The University of Leicester England ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Posted by Pierre-Yves Saunier <pierre-yves.saunier@wanadoo.fr> What Carolyn Kold points out around the Red Cross is probably a relevant problem for all NGOs. They want, to different extents, to be transnational, above the nation-states, However, they cannot help being international, getting organized according to the network of the nation states. They are constantly concerned about not hurting the nation states. It is all the more acute with governmental international organizations, such as the former League of Nations and the UN. Nations are their basis. This kind of thing would certainly need to be considered if any distinction between 'inter' and 'trans' national is useful to establish. Pierre Yves Saunier Unite ville environnement societe Lyon France ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Posted by Joe Nasr <joenasr@compuserve.com> It seems to me that there is a type of history missing from the recent discussion, one that only Pierre-Yves Saunier recognizes explicitly in his review (and not in his later posting). Perhaps this can be called interactional history: that is, history where the central subject is exchanges - of ideas, concepts, influences, models, practices, individuals, etc... It appears (not having read it) that Rodgers' book belongs squarely within this approach. Note that in the above paragraph, the word "nation" did not appear (nor did "state" for that matter). This was not coincidental. Interactional history may be about exchanges between nations, but it may also be within a nation (say, how Haussmannism came to bear upon other cities within France during the previous century). It may intersect with the other forms of history that some of the recent messages brought up, but it should not be confused with them. I co-organized a seminar last year on "Imported or Exported Urbanism?" (we're now working on publishing its papers). That seminar included papers that dealt with issues that included the followings: waves of European urban planning influences that impacted on the built environment of Cairo; the introduction of municipal governance into Tripoli (Libya) to experiment with it before disseminating it in more central parts of the Ottoman empire; the use of successive of French experts in Buenos Aires to bring in certain innovations; and the adoption and adaptation of the French authorities during the Mandate period of urban transformations in old Beirut that began in late Ottoman times. In common to all these reports was one aspect: that all sought to understand specifically (rather than tangentially) different flows that took place. The directions of these flows was very heterogenous, and the power relations varied greatly as did many other parts of the respective contexts. But tying them all together was the fact that what was studied were the flows themselves. Joe Nasr Independent researcher Falls Church, VA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To post to H-DEMOG, simply send your message to our *new* address: H-DEMOG@H-NET.MSU.EDU Questions to the editor not intended for posting should be addressed to: Dave Elliott: HDEMOG@SESCVA.ESC.EDU or J. David Hacker: HDEMOG@HIST.UMN.EDU To subscribe, send the following message to listserv@h-net.msu.edu, inserting your information where appropriate: subscribe h-demog yourfirstname yourlastname, institution To remove your name from the list, send the following message to listserv@h-net.msu.edu FROM THE ADDRESS TO WHICH MESSAGES ARE SENT: unsub h-demog For listserv commands you can use, send a message saying simply HELP to: listserv@h-net.msu.edu and then send the command to: listserv@h-net.msu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------
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