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Will O'Neil asked: "It is said that "Other states possess an army; Prussia is an army which possesses a state" -- by said by whom first? I have seen it attributed (in slightly different wording) to Voltaire and to one or another of the brothers Mirabeau." Will, that is a tough one. The quote sometimes also says "The Prussian army is a state within a state." Because the sentence is so wrong but the writings of Count Mirabeau are otherwise pretty smart we took it once up in a discussion with other experts in Early Modern Times many, many years ago. Quite a few of them were military Historians. One had read all the writings of Mirabeau in German and claimed that the quote never shows up anywhere. This was some months later confirmed by another historian. It is important to know, though, that most of the writings about military matters were not done by the Count himself but by an officer accompanying him on his travels through Europe. Mirabeau seems not to have bothered to give him credit for his contributions. My papers about all that, however, are still in Germany so I can't help you out with his name. I have read a vast amount about the Old Prussian Army - literature and primary sources - and this sentence is quoted exceedingly often. As a "source" it either says "Count Mirabeau" or "attributed to Count Mirabeau". I have not once seen a precise location given for the quote. I don't recall ever seeing the quote being attributed to Voltaire. My guess would be that the quotation - if it is not entirely made up - might be found in the correspondence of the officer who accompanied Mirabeau. Hope that helps. Joerg Muth ----- For subscription help, go to: http://www.h-net.org/lists/help/ To change your subscription settings, go to http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=h-war -----