View the H-Russia Discussion Logs by month
View the Prior Message in H-Russia's May 2002 logs by: [date] [author] [thread] View the Next Message in H-Russia's May 2002 logs by: [date] [author] [thread] Visit the H-Russia home page.
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Ukrainian Famine I have been following these arguments with interest and I would concur with the analysis of Gijs Kessler that this was indeed a man made famine irrespective of poor harvest or not. If one wishes to actually see how this came about take a look at modern day Zimbabwe which when Robert Mugabe came to power had the richest farming industry in Africa. Continued persecution and state sponsored terrorism against the predominantly white farmers (read Kulaks),who by and large stayed in Zimbabwe, and the parceling out of confiscated land to a population with knowledge only of subsistence farming (read collectivization) has resulted in a countrywide famine. In addition the economy has been destroyed exports have plummeted to almost nothing and many confiscated farms are now abandoned completely. The state reaction is - blame the few white farmers (Kulaks) that still remain and confiscate the remaining productive farms. Does it sound familiar? - and what a suprise Mugabe is a "Marxist" schooled during the Brezhnev era. Luckily Zimbabwe still has an opposition brave enough and organised enough to mount some sort of challenge and to bring all this to international attention. This was much harder in the Soviet Union of the 1930's. Marcus Sherwood-Jenkins 2) From: Joe Constance [mailto:JConstan@Anselm.Edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:04 AM Subject: RE: Ukrainian Famine I find [an] attempt to explain [. . .] survivor accounts of the Ukrainian famine to be somewhat less than credible and, furthermore, believe it does, in fact, minimize the suffering of those involved. Literature on post traumatic stress syndrome doesn't prove anything incontrovertably, save that the people suffering from it did, incontrovertably, go through a very real kind of hell. Clearly, those who lived through death camps, major battles, and famine might not remember everything in detail, and some may even lie about portions of their experience in later years to make sure the perpetrators of the crime receive punishment. To dismiss so many accounts of those Ukrainians who suffered through Stalin's enforced famine, on the basis of what is still incomplete [. . . ] research regarding PTSS does very little to detract from Robert Conquest's well documented contention that the famine in the Ukraine was a horrible crime perpetrated by the Soviet government. Joseph Constance Saint Anselm College Manchester, NH 3) From: Louis Coatney [mailto:cl52@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:43 AM There are other dimensions to [a] longstanding attempt to deny the (fact or extent of) the Ukrainian holocaust . . . . . . A mass murder is successful if the target victims are in fact murdered and if the perpetrators can get away with the crime -- to terrorize other possible victims with the prospect of that happening to them ... and the murderers getting away with it ... again. . . . It should be noted, here, that none of the major U.S. networks would run the 1980s(?) TV program about the Ukrainian Famine. Only PBS would do it, after William F. Buckley held it to its public standards of truthful reporting and journalism. . . . Indeed, those of us who stand by and say nothing while such crimes against history and truth are committed are ethically no less guilty. Lou Coatney, Macomb, Illinois
|