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H-ASIA April 24, 2007 Further on discussion of the usage "celestials" *********************************************************************** From: Adam Bohnet <mixoparth@yahoo.ca> If I may revive an old thread (from the early weeks of March, 2007, a question was raised concerning the origin of the phrase "Celestial" and its meaning/implications. I do not think that Kay Anderson's _Vancouver's Chinatown - Racial Discourse in Canada, 1875-1980_ (Montreal and Kingston: McGill and Queen's UP, 1991) was mentioned, but within this book, especially chapter 3 (p. 73-105) "Constructing Race through Place and Practice" one may find numerous examples of the use of Celestials by Vancouver newspapers in the late 19th early 20th centuries, almost always in an insulting way (for instance, Celestial Cesspool). Also, I have been reading through the Veritable Records of the Choson Dynasty (not all of it, of course), and recently encountered a passage in which a Choson official, ChOng YOp, comments that "The People of the Celestial Country (Ch'Onjo chi in) have developed a tendency to deception, and tend to admire themselves. They do not turn (upon their actions and feel] shame." Sonjo Sillok 109:39b, kuksa fx: 23: 584, 1599.02.26 (pyOngja). Please forgive the bad translation. I have two points - first of all, beware the Korean translation, as if I had been reading it I would not not have known that Chinese (Chung'guk in) had been translated ChOnjo chi in. Also, to refer to another thread, I doubt the value of computerized translation, as a machine would have been quite right to translate Ch'Onjo chi in as Chung'guk in or Chinese, but in doing so would have lost an interesting nuance. My translation "People of the Celestial Country" is a terrible example of translationese, of course, which I only use to make my point. Second, although the type of racial hatred with which the term "Celestials" seems to have been associated in late 19th - early 20th century British Columbia obviously does not apply here, a phrase which obviously broadly accepts the hierarchy of the tributary system can be used even in the context of a a general attack on the character and culture of the Chinese. Yours sincerely, Adam Bohnet ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: <H-ASIA@h-net.msu.edu> For holidays or short absences send post to: <listserv@h-net.msu.edu> with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/
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