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**BPP Field Marshall, Donald "DC" Cox ** **April 16, 1936 - February 19, 2011 ** /*/In Memory Of Our Recently Fallen Exiled Black Panther Comrade, Field Marshall "DC" ; The Safiya Bukhari-Ablbert Nuh Washington Foundation Celebrate's Black History Month & Pays Tribute To This True Warrior For The People With The Following March 31, 1992 Interview Conducted By Our Late Black Panther/BLA Political Prisoner Sistah Safiyah Bukhari. "DC" Was 74 Years Old At His Passing./*/ *//*/*/Long Live The Revolutionary Spirit Of Field Marshall "DC"/*/ /*/All Power To The People/*/ /*/Bro. Sadiki "Shep" Ojore Olugbala/*/ /*/Safiya-Nuh Foundation/NYS-BPP/*/ **An Interview with Donald Cox, former Field Marshall, Black Panther Party*** **By Safiya Bukhari*** /*/Q: Would you tell us a little about your background, and why you joined the BPP?/*/ **A: Well, i was born and grew up in Missouri and all those cornfields and whatnot. So, i*** **was really just a 'country nigga', you know? Not intellectual, not knowing anything, really. i** **arrived in California 17 years old in '53. Of course, like all Black people who grew up in the** **United States at that time, i was aware of the oppression of Black folks and all of the lynchings** **that We were hearing about every now & then at that time.** **After the Supreme Court decision in '54, i was sitting at the table with an uncle &** **aunt that i was living with. And he was saying that was a very historical decision that We were** **witnessing. Of course, at the time i wasn't capable of understanding the implications of what** **that meant.** **Soon after, Little Rock & all those events began. Now, out there in California i wasn't** **feeling directly touched personally, but feeling touched as a Black person in America. And** **really understanding that that was part of me too. But it didn't go much further than that.** **Then you have incidents such as the Emmett Till lynching -- i felt very sensitive about** **that because We weren't very far different in age. Then there were the Montgomery Bus** **Boycotts and then the Freedom Rides - all these things going on -- it just looked to me like things were really really** **beginning to move, but in the south. And then the Church bombings and the civil rights demonstrations that began. i had a** **little problem dealing with the philosophy of non-violence. i just at that time couldn't imagine myself being spit on or abused** **physically without doing anything.** **So, for me personally at that time, i wasn't attracted to dealing with any non-violent actions. Although the fever of** **the Civil Rights movement actually arrived there in San Francisco. And with all the bombings & brutality of the** **demonstrations and such, that finally i reached the point i wanted to do something. So i joined the group that seemed to me** **like to be the most militant thing in San Francisco, which was CORE, the Congress of Racial Equality. And We began to** **prepare & make demonstrations against real estate agents that discriminated against Blacks and whatnot. First, We would** **send a Black person in to ask for a particular place that was for rent or for sale. Naturally, they would be refused and then a** **white member of the organization would go in and naturally, it would be available to them. So, We began to boycott & picket** **those places. And the cadillac dealer, where in San Francisco at that time, 75% of all the El Doradoes that were sold were** **bought by Blacks, but there were no Black salesmen. So, finally with those demonstrations We began to get some token** **advances. But i noticed right away, even with my lack of political maturity, that whenever -- like at the cadillac place --** **whenever finally they broke down & started giving jobs to people, it was always jobs for people in the community that was** **already kinda well off in the sense that they were -- bourgie! In other words, it wasn't the people that were really down & out** **that were benefiting from the advances. So, i really didn't understand too much politically what was going on but i just didn't** **feel satisfied; so i just started leaning back. That was around '63.** **After the Civil Rights March on Washington and - the thing that really broke my back, two weeks later -- the** **response in Birmingham when those 4 little Black girls were killed in Sunday School [during] that church bombing. That just** **blew my mind. i just felt a total impotence. i felt impotent & frustrated; wanted to do something, but not knowing anything.** **Really, i wasn't an intellectual, i hadn't done any reading, i didn't even know what revolution meant at that time.** **But anyhow on my job, i worked my way up, & finally i became the boss. As soon as i became the manager where i** **worked (the owner owned several corporations, We were only one), i had meetings with him once a week to go over the** **books. The rest of the time i was on my own. So once i got to be the boss, director of the place, i knew i was gonna correct all** **the injustices my co-workers & i had been working with all these years. To get them raises everybody deserved & whatnot.** **But as soon as i started talking about that, he starts talkin' 'bout, "Whoa, whoa; hold up! Keep the prices down, pay the** **minimum amount of wages & charge the maximum for the products."** **So, through this process on my job, i became conscious & aware that it was the system that was wrong. But like i** **said, not having done any reading, not knowing what revolution was about, i didn't know what to do about it. But i** **understood fundamentally through my work, that it was the system that was all wrong.** **And by that time, '65 had rolled around, i was hearing Malcolm X & people on the street corner like Don Warden in** **Oakland at the time, talking about 'Black' & all that and all the things that i had never heard of before. And, it sure made** **sense to me, so i used to go down to the park every weekend to hear him talk. Then the mosque opened up there in San** **Francisco so i used to go down there every once in a while to hear what they were saying, go by the restaurant. And this** **Black consciousness slowly began to take root in my head, but still i didn't know what to do.** **Well, finally the Long Hot Summer started. Seeing Watts going up in flames on television; that really stirred up** **some positive emotions: "Finally, finally! niggas are striking out!" It was based strictly on emotion, not based on any kind of** **political analysis or understanding really what all those implications were. But i felt good seeing people striking out.** **Then the next year, a policeman killed a young Black on Hunters Point, who was only about 11 years old, he shot** **him in the back. So the youth up there started going out on riot too, and it finally spread into my neighborhood there in** **fillmore. Well, i was going to work everyday in my shirt & tie, a halfway bourgie nigga at the time. So, i wasn't really** **participating, but i was just out on my stoop watching the little youngbloods running through the neighborhood gettin' away** **from the policemen.** **And then i began to hear about a group over in Oakland, called the Black Panthers. With guns -- i didn't know** **anything about 'em, didn't know what they were talking about, but the word started going around a bit. And finally there was** **an article in the San Francisco Examiner -- at the time they showed a picture of Huey Newton standing up there with a gun.** **That was mind blowing, seeing that. So, i started asking around, but nobody knew anything about 'em, didn't know what** **they was. Finally, one day i walked in to the job and somebody gave me a copy of the San Francisco Chronicle and there on** **the front page was a photograph of all them niggas at the state capitol with guns! Well, i didn't know what i was gon' do, but** **i wanted to find them dudes with them guns! 'Cause to me, with all the violence that Blacks had been suffering from all this** **time, the idea of standing up and saying "We don't want no more of that. If you shoot at us, We gon' shoot back" -- that** **appealed to me. But i still didn't know anybody.** **Finally i ran across a couple of youngbloods that knew one person that was there in San Francisco that was part of** **the Panther party -- that was Emory Douglass. So We found somebody that knew him to get him to come and talk to us and** **whatnot. We started buying the Panther paper and studying that. It so happened that the first issue We got our hands on, there** **was an essay by Huey Newton talking about the correct handling of a revolution.** **For us there in San Francisco, not knowing anybody, not really being into it, We didn't feel worthy of being in their** **company! We put them in such high esteem; so We worked, started trying to organize and learn a little bit amongst ourselves** **about what was going on. By that time, Newark was breaking out, Detroit -- We felt like the revolution was on, and We were** **behind time, so We were working to catch up. We wasn't going over there to meet with those people in Oakland, 'til We felt** **like We deserved to be in their company! But in the meantime, through our relationship with Emory, We got Huey to come** **talk to our group. And We really held him in high esteem and everything because of all the stuff they were doing in the street,** **you know facing off the pigs with the guns & whatnot. So it was a little funny meeting him, and seeing that little prettyboy** **with that little high-pitched voice. He didn't fit the image of this bad nigga We had. And he talked so intellectual that We** **didn't half understand stuff he was saying, but still that didn't change anything. But he saw how We was organized amongst** **ourselves with our guns and giving training courses to people on how to use them & whatnot. So, at that time there in the** **summer of '67, he started asking us to deal with anything that came up there in San Francisco where people wanted Panthers.** **At that time there wasn't the Panther Party as it became known; over there in Oakland, you could get maybe a handful of** **people together that called themselves Panthers, nothing more.** **So, some people in Hunters Point asked him to come over & talk to them, so he called us & told us to go deal with** **it. So We went over & rapped; took our guns, showed people a few basic things, how to break 'em down, and talking about** **safety rules & all like that. And, We started doing that all around the different Black communities. San Francisco was small,** **but the Black ghettoes were all divided up -- there was no one central one -- they were divided up into about five: there was** **Hunters Point, Fillmore, and a couple more i can't recall the names of. So, We started going around to one of these** **neighborhoods every weekend with our guns, giving demonstrations & whatnot.** **Finally, We reached a point where a few of us felt like, "Ok, talkin' is enough, We gotta get down to business".** **About three of us, We found each other, and We planned a little operation. It was successful. And, not having any** **propaganda machinery around, We chose the anniversary of the date that the policeman had killed that young dude up on** **Hunters Point the year before. So, if the people didn't really make the connection, at least the pigs knew what it was about.** **So We did our first action on that anniversary, September 27, 1967.** **Well, it was successful, so then We felt like, "Now, We can go over there and talk to them people in Oakland. So,** **the next day We went straight to Oakland. We went to Huey's house and David Hilliard was there and a couple of other** **people, but they were laying back, they weren't talking much. We went to the restaurant, just sitting down talking. Naturally,** **We let him know what We had done and he had seen the news and he knew about it. But to my surprise, he asked me "well, u** **know don't you think that it's better; rather than start moving', isn't it better to work first to get the means to get organized** **and to get to moving?" Well, i didn't expect that kind of a question, so all i could think of to say was "as far as We're** **concerned, you got to use what you got to get what you need." But anyhow, that was the beginning of our relationship with** **the Black Panther Party. That was in September of 1967.*** /*/Q: How old were you then?/*/ **A: 31** /*/Q: How did you become the field marshal of the BPP?/*/ **A: Well, We didn't stop there. That was in September 27th, when We did that first action. Then, Huey went down & got*** **wounded & arrested. That was in October, and We had decided that, like the Panthers there in Oakland, We wouldn't accept** **that anymore. We wouldn't let them move with impunity on people that We considered our leaders. So, We planned an** **action to retaliate for that. It was also a successful action. Because of the things that We were doing there in San Francisco,** **one night a car came with Bobby Seale, David Hilliard, and i think George Murray. They came down to the neighborhood** **where We hung out, and Bobby said he wanted us to join the Party, and he wanted to make me a member of the central** **committee. So, i said "Well, We as a group, We don't have any hierarchical structures; every time there's something that** **needs to be done, the one that knows the most about it does it. He's the one that tells us how to deal with it, so i'll have to talk** **to everybody and let u know." Well, We got our heads together right then & there, and everybody said, "deal with it". So i** **told him, "Ok". That's when our formal alliance began with the Party.** **Because of my background with arms - i'm from Missouri, one meal a year coming from hunting, i had my first** **rifle when i was 8! So when the thing started i had an arsenal at the house. So, being able to train people, and knowing all the** **gun laws -- them people didn't even know that you could legally go down and buy all these guns & whatnot -- i started** **dealing with that. So i didn't have a title yet.** **Then they had a meeting to get a little bit better organized, around the time We were going to have the rally for** **Huey's birthday in 1968. That's when Stokely, Rob Brown, James Forman, and all those people came out. And the merger** **with the Panthers & SNCC went down. Now, as far as SNCC was concerned, they needed to get some more legitimacy** **because We had taken the thing to a higher level than them; for us, the Panthers, We needed to get ahold of a national** **network, so that served our interests on that level. So We had a meeting and We defined more precisely the central committee** **at that time, which was naturally Huey, Eldridge, Bobby, David, Kathleen, George Murray, Emory Douglass, Masai Hewitt** **& myself. At that time, i received the title of Field Marshall. But because i was still going to work in my tie & suits &** **whatnot during the day and doing those other activities at night, i said that to continue to be effective, i don't want that to be** **known publicly. So, if you find any of those old Panther newspapers you'll see that in the beginning, every time you saw** **field marshal, it was written 'underground'.*** /*/Q: What were some of your responsibilities as field marshal?/*/ **A: Well frankly, it was strictly on a military level; procuring guns, and teaching people how to use them. And, because*** **a lot of people are still out there today, i don't want to go into any more details like that. But, it was strictly on a military** **level.** **To buy handguns in California, you had to go through the police and wait two weeks, & get a report. So, because** **almost everybody had been busted and didn't have a right to handguns, i used to go to Nevada & buy them. Because there,** **you could buy 'em over the counter like cigarettes. So, i'd collect money & go there and come back with trunkloads of guns.** **That worked alright until Bunchy Carter's brother got caught in an ambush in Los Angeles, Arthur was his name; he was the** **one who introduced that phrase, "Right On" in the party. All the time, Arthur was sayin' "right on, right on!", and everybody** **picked up on that. But anyhow, he got killed; he got a full blast from a twelve-gauge shotgun, but before he died, he offed the** **two people that ambushed him, and the pistol that he had was one of those that i had been buying. So, when they traced it,** **and saw the store records of all the guns that i had been buying, they made scary headlines there in the Bay Area, talking** **about Panthers stockpiling guns. And there was even a Black congressman in the State Assembly that was a bootlicker at the** **time - i don't know how he evolved -- his name was Mervyn Dymally. He stood up in the congressional house and read into** **the record all the numbers of all the guns that i had bought, as if it was a crime for Black people to arm themselves to defend** **themselves against all that police violence. So, my activities at that time really were dealing with things on a military level.*** /*/Q: We often hear of the BPP referred to as a paramilitary organization; is this a correct description and if it is a/*/*/ //correct description, what was it's structure & chain of command?///* **A: You see, in the beginning, because of all the police violence when Huey & Bobby & Lil' Bobby took to the streets*** **with their guns, they concentrated on point #7: ending police brutality & whatnot, in the community. The program had ten** **points, but that was the priority for us because of all the violence that was going on. So, that gave it more of a military** **appearance; and the fact that the gun laws in California permitted us - it was legal for us to be out there with those guns like** **that. That gave us an image of being a little bit more adventurous than We really were. We'd go in the police station with our** **guns and it was legal, and they couldn't do anything about it. But, when they started working on that gun law, to stop you** **walking around with the gun loaded, that's when the Panthers went to the capitol with the guns in California. So, in that** **sense, it was because of the military situation of all the repression & violence against Black people. The chain of command of** **the Panther Party and the titles more or less, were like a military organization. Or, like a lot of revolutionary governments in** **the world: Huey - minister of defense, i was the field marshal, David Hilliard was the chief of staff; but also, there was a** **minister of culture: Emory Douglass, minister of education: George Murray, communications secretary: Kathleen Cleaver,** **minister of information: Eldridge Cleaver.** **So, in the beginning, emphasis was placed on point #7, with the police patrols and all like that. In practice, even** **though the organization was not a paramilitary organization, in fact, it really had that appearance -- initially.** **But then, after Huey had gotten busted, the few of us that were there in the Bay Area got together the next day and** **We know that with one policeman dead and another wounded, they're gonna try to put Huey in the gas chamber. We don't** **know what to do, but We gotta do something to keep them from sending Huey to the gas chamber. Immediately, the Huey** **Newton****Defense Committee was created, and Eldridge Cleaver (despite what he became later) went to work. And that - the** **pressure group to keep them from sending Huey to the gas chamber - became the Black Panther Party as it became known** **around the world.** **We started organizing, trying to get as many Blacks together as possible. Getting guns; it wasn't a real welldisciplined** **organization at the time, 'cause some people started doing all kinds of crazy stuff -- cheap, nickel & dime** **robberies, intimidating people & whatnot, but still it was growing like wildfire.** **By April, when they assassinated Martin Luther King, and those 150 cities burned overnight, our level was a little** **bit higher at that point; We kept people from going out and just doing spontaneous things, but there were still a few little** **things that went down. We more or less managed to keep things under control.** **But, Eldridge Cleaver felt the need to move, and he really didn't have any military experience, you see; he was the** **minister of information. So, he just gathered up a whole bunch of people and everybody was armed and they went out in the** **streets, riding around in cars. i don't know the details, all i know is some police cars showed up. Shooting started, niggas was** **runnin' in all different directions, and Eldridge and Little Bobby got cornered off into a house. We all know that history --** **they stayed in there for about an hour, hour and a half with all that teargas & everything -- they couldn't get 'em out, because** **Lil' Bobby had a M-14, and there was a little alleyway, they were on the ground floor. To get to them, anybody that comes in** **that little alleyway, they gonna get blown away; so finally, they just set the house on fire. At that point, well they had to give** **it up -- they had to come on out. But Eldridge, knowing how the pigs was, he stripped down naked. See, he had been** **wounded in the foot, he told Lil' Bobby to do the same thing, but Bobby only took off his shirt. So, with all that gas, for an** **hour and a half with no gas mask, you can imagine the shape they were in; plus Eldridge being wounded. So they went** **stumbling out of there, and Eldridge being wounded on the foot, he fell and Lil' Bobby stumbling, and one of those racist** **police yelled, "He's got a gun!", and they opened fire on him. i don't know how many times he was shot, maybe fifty times;** **it was really terrible. It was just out-and-out murder, as everybody knows. And the house looked like swiss cheese, all the** **bullet holes that were in it, it was one of those old wooden houses where bullets was just goin' right through it. Since they** **was down on the ground floor in the house, they really hadn't gotten touched. But they blew Lil' Bobby away outside.*** /*/Q: You left the U.S. and went into exile in 1970. Can you tell us what the conditions were in the streets and/*/*/ //within the Black Panther Party at this time?///* **A: Ah, things had really evolved by that time! More or less, the struggle had left the streets and gone into the courts.*** **Because frankly, after the campaign to free Huey finally reached the trial and they didn't send Huey to the gas chamber, and** **Charles Garry (who was the lawyer) said that he would be out in two years. All of a sudden, you got all this machinery that's** **moving across the country for the sole purpose of freeing Huey & keeping him from going to the gas chamber, and We didn't** **know what to do with it! We were passed by the events, because people just overnight was moving all across the country in** **the name of the Black Panther.** **So, We decided to go into retreat, and started going into political education trying to find a tool to help us deal with** **organizing all of that. And i've never known to this day where it came from, but the first thing that came out for us to study** **was "The Foundations of Leninism", by Josef Stalin. And as far as i'm concerned, that was the beginning of the end, because** **that was the book that was used to turn the emphasis from the struggle to the party. Instead of the struggle for the liberation** **of Black people becoming the most important thing, it was the party that became the most important thing. Then the** **democratic centralism, and all that marxist-leninist paraphernalia that most of the organizations calling themselves** **communist was based on. But the so-called central committee, and i'm gonna tell the truth, was David Hilliard at that time.** **Because Eldridge had already had to go into exile in December, Huey was in jail, and Bobby had charges against him. But** **they were making decisions by themselves. We didn't really have those central committee meetings, with the democratic** **centralism where things were voted and then passed on down. Personally, myself, i didn't know what to do, i was going** **along with that, 'cause i felt that the party was the only means to deal with that situation at that time.** **But slowly, in April, that's when the New York 21 got busted, and i made a trip back there with david hilliard and** **whatnot. i saw that the party had just fallen apart. Because of the repression back there, david hilliard wanted out; he wanted** **to get back to oakland the next day after We dealt with what had to be dealt with. But, i saw what the situation was like, and i** **decided to stay there and try to re-organize and get the party put back together. The bust had just gone down in New Haven;** **that's why We had met there in New York. The party in New Haven didn't even exist anymore. So, i stayed, and they got on** **the first thing smokin'. Robert Bey was so scared, he sat up in the house all night with a pistol in his hand until it was time to** **go to the airport to catch the plane. They wanted to get out of New York, as far as they were concerned, it was too dangerous.** **So, they went back to California, and i stayed in New York.** **So, i started moving to get the party re-organized. The fascism conference was coming up in Oakland, and We were** **working, organizing people around that, and using that as an mobilizing tool. So, the party started coming back together there** **on the east coast. Philadelphia, New York, New Jersey, and then finally We got enough cadre where i could take people from** **different chapters, and We went to New Haven, printed up some leaflets and passed them out, held a rally and opened up a** **new party overnight. Because those people up there had been abandoned. It was necessary to work and start getting attention** **to their case & getting them out. We just took people from all over & put Doug Miranda in charge, and they started with that.** **Now how things evolved, structurally, i don't really know, because finally the police figured out a way to get rid of** **me & cut my wings. i had gotten busted in Richmond CA back in the summer of '68 because they had a riot, and i had gone** **over there to observe. Now actually, i never moved without my guns, you know. So, the curfew was at 9 o'clock, and they** **had been watching me all day, the California Highway Patrol. So, when it was time for curfew, me & a couple of other dudes** **were gonna go into the house; as soon as We got to the house they came from everywhere and vamped on me, and actually** **they found my piece. So i got busted for having a gun and then they put charges on me being an ex-felon in possession of a** **firearm. That was another felony. i had been busted when i worked for the post office because i ripped off a little money from** **the mail. i had gotten probation for that, but anything dealing with the post office at that time was a federal charge. It wasn't** **considered a misdemeanor, so i was considered an ex-felon, even though i had only got probation -- it was very minor,** **something like $50, but that was on the record. So they used that as a technicality, to vamp on me there in New York, being** **an ex-felon in possession of a firearm to test some new law they had made there in congress. i was confined, i couldn't move** **anymore around the country. Because i was living in New York at the time, i could only go to New York but the charges** **were put in California, so i had to go to there for court. i could only go to New York & California. So, when i went back to** **California for the court trial, that gave David Hilliard & his clique a chance to take over back on the east coast. Because by** **then, things were organized, you see. In the beginning, they was afraid to even go there, but by then with things being** **organized, they sent their people in to take over.** **i'm going to trial and whatnot, things were dragging out, but then the Baltimore case came down. They had found a** **police informer, the police had sent him in to the party, but he showed his hand two or three days after he had gotten there.** **They dealt with him. But, because i was responsible for the east coast at the time, when they came out with the list of the** **people they were gonna vamp on, my name was at the top of the list. i received the word on April 16, 1970 which was my** **34th birthday, so i got hat. i disappeared that day. Now, i stayed there, not knowing really when things were going to go** **down, but i went underground immediately. But two weeks later around the 31st of April, they started kicking down doors** **looking for me, so it was at that time that i split.** **i had already been working trying to get people to go to Algiers to help out to set up the international section. Sekou** **Odinga and Larry Mack had been underground for sometime, over a year, and they needed breathing room because there was** **no underground apparatus at that time. So instead of taking people off the street that We needed for street work, it was** **decided that Sekou & Larry would go there. My thing came down in the meantime, so We all went there; Sekou, Larry &** **myself. Now, We didn't have no travel arrangements at that time, We weren't proficient in producing false papers at that** **time, so Sekou & Larry had to take a plane. They landed in Cuba; it took us a couple of months to get them there. It was a** **coincidence; they took the plane the same day i left the states. i arrived in Algiers on the 5th, and they arrived in Cuba about** **the same time. i think it took Eldridge & i almost two months to get them out of there. It was almost July before We got them** **to Algiers.** **But anyhow, We all finally got together, but in the meantime, the government had given us an embassy. The** **revolutionaries in Vietnam became a provisional government, so they gave them a normal governmental embassy, and they** **gave us their old embassy that they had when they were the National Liberation Front.** **In the meantime, Eldridge was leading a delegation of anti-imperialist forces to Korea, so he left. Sekou, Larry,** **myself, Bill Stephens, & Connie Matthews were left there in Algiers, and We remodeled the villa to create an embassy with** **plaques out front and everything. Fortunately, We were able to get it together just in time for their return. They came back on** **Friday, September 13th, and We had the official opening on the 15th on September of the International Section of the Black** **Panther Party.** **So my exile was really a continuation of work. i didn't feel like i was losing anything because as far as i was** **concerned personally i was at war -- it didn't matter if i was in or out -- work was gonna continue.*** /*/Q: What kinds of thoughts were going through your mind when you made the decision to leave the United/*/*/ //States?///* **A: The only thing, frankly, that i was thinking about was keeping them from catching up on me. i wasn't gonna give*** **them a day for anything. My whole thing was to get away from their grasp; they was kickin' in doors all over the place. So, it** **was funny, you know, because i went into disguise and i had to go into the federal building to get a passport. Now, they're** **out there kicking down doors, the passport office is on one floor and the FBI was on the next floor and i'm right in there** **gettin' my false passport! i managed to get it within 24 hours, and i got hat. My only thing was to get away from them.** **Now, i'm gonna tell you also, i felt a little relief, because the Panther situation internally, had become untenable** **with David Hilliard and his clique. i didn't agree with the way they were taking things. The old emphasis of armed defense &** **whatnot was just totally squashed, and they were not wanting to deal with anything anymore that would attract attention of** **the police, and as far as i was concerned that was not what the Panthers represented. i wanted to resign; i had written a letter** **of resignation for Huey, but i hadn't given it to him yet. Sister Barbara had the copy, and when that thing came down on me,** **frankly i was relieved. Because that allowed me to get out of there without being branded a traitor or renegade as they would** **have done in that newspaper as they did with anybody that didn't agree with them. So i was able to get out of that hell there** **without them smearing me across the country with that newspaper saying i was a renegade & whatnot and that allowed me to** **continue to work outside, so really on one level, it was a relief for me.*** /*/Q: Did you know what to expect, and did you know where you were going?/*/ **A: Oh yeah, i knew i was going to Algiers. What to expect? No, 'cause i was full of illusions. After all the times i had*** **seen the film, "Battle of Algiers", i thought i was going to a revolutionary country, where everybody was revolutionary &** **whatnot. So, really it was a contradiction, 'cause when i got there and started seeing graffiti written on the walls and seeing** **the name 'Elvis', i didn't really understand what that was really all about! But, the atmosphere was very good, because the** **OAU had a liberation committee where they supported liberation movements and Algeria was the host country. So, at that** **time in 1970, there were representatives of struggles of people from over 90 countries there. Being within that diplomatic** **atmosphere, revolutionary atmosphere, that was very good & very positive. But there were contradictions in terms of the** **Algerian society being revolutionary in the beginning -- i didn't understand what was going on. People loving the French &** **whatnot; i couldn't understand that, after all they had been through.*** /*/Q: When was the International Section of the Black Panther Party established, and how did it come about?/*/ **A: Well, like i say, the official opening was September 15, 1970, and it came about because the Panther Party had*** **international recognition at that time. Really, there were some inegalities because of that, because We were considered the** **favorites of everybody. There was no liberation movement in Algiers at that time that had an embassy, except us. Even the** **people that were waging armed struggle -- all the Portuguese colonies, Angola, Mozambique, Guinea Bissau -- even those** **people didn't have an embassy. They were working out of apartments & whatnot. So, that caused some resentment. We** **weren't aware of it at the time, but the privileges that We were being given were because people respected us for dealing with** **the beast from the interior. We were considered heroes, maybe much more than what We deserved, and We didn't really** **realize it at the time. So, We created a lot of resentment without really knowing about it.** **Like, We're just niggas off the street, [and] We're lookin' for a place to have an embassy because they hadn't given** **us one yet. So, We're lookin' around with real estate agents, they show us a place, it was big enough to put an office upstairs,** **We could live downstairs, so We rented it and paid a years rent in advance. Well, We didn't know, but it turned out to be in** **one of the most bourgie neighborhoods in Algiers! But for us, with our standards from the United States, it didn't seem like** **that way to us, but We found out later that it was. We needed cars. Well, if u see old French cars -- the R16, and things like** **that -- they were the kinds of cars that in the 'States, We wouldn't be caught in! You know, i was driving a GTO, with a 450** **cubic centimeter inch engine in there, with 4-on-the-floor when i left the states. So, driving an R16, for me it was almost like** **a Model T. So, We rented two of them to have enough transportation. But it turns out, that was a car that everybody down** **there dreamed of having! It was one of the leading cars that you could have.** **So, a lot of mistakes were made on that level, on our part from being just totally ignorant, but We needed** **transportation, and that was the biggest car that We could find. Even though it didn't meet our American standards, it got us** **around. We didn't realize the resentment that created in other people's minds. Like having these two R16s, having a villa in** **Hidra, then by that time, they had given us the Vietnamese embassy, so We had an embassy of our own. Later, i found out** **that people were saying, "oh, they're not revolutionaries, they're bourgies -- they're bourgeois people." Can you imagine** **calling Sekou Odinga, Larry Mack, Eldridge Cleaver & myself bourgie people? (laughing) But those were mistakes We made** **for not understanding the situation.** **But then, too, We weren't like other people from the other liberation movements. They just sat around waiting for** **handouts. The OAU gave every liberation movement 2,000 dinars a month to live on. You can't live on that! It was symbolic** **as far as We were concerned; We dealt with our own needs. Eldridge used a lot of the money from the book he got; plus there** **were support committees working in Europe. So, We dealt with ourselves without asking anybody for anything, and they** **wasn't used to people moving like that, and that created resentment too. We dealt with whatever We felt like had to be dealt** **with at the time. We're not in no struggle for people to tell us what to do. So on that level We made a lot of mistakes on the** **cultural level, not taking into account the cultural differences -- We were ignorant to all that. We were just being ourselves.*** /*/Q: What were the functions of the International Section?/*/ **A: To disseminate information about the Party all over the world, doing as much as We could. Being really the*** **embassy, We were treated as the official representatives of the american movement. No americans came to Algiers or could** **leave without our authorization. If someone wanted to come, they would contact us, and then if We accepted them, We would** **give clearance to the FLN. The people who were in charge of us would give the clearance at the airport. We were the official** **american representatives in Algiers at the time, because the embassy was closed since the war in 1967.** **Now, We didn't know it at the time, but We were also being used by the Algerians because they were in secret** **negotiations for oil contracts with the american oil companies for the billions of dollars that they were going to use to build** **the future of their country. So, i'm sure that We were used as a little pressure in their negotiations, but We weren't aware of** **that at the time.*** /*/Q: Tell us about the split in the Black Panther Party as it developed from the view of the International Section?/*/ **A: Well, as i said, before i left i didn't agree with the way Hilliard had taken the thing; really using repression and*** **creating an internal police force to vamp on anybody in the organization that didn't agree with their line, or who didn't agree** **with them. He just put himself as a "little-foot Stalin"; he became the Stalin of the Black Panther Party.** **But, us out there, even before i left, our hopes was in Huey. "When Huey gets out, he's gonna put things back on the** **line." So, here We are in 1970 -- i think he got out in August -- even a month before the International Section opened up. You** **have to keep in mind: when Huey got shot and got busted and went to jail, you could only get a handful of people together** **there in the Bay Area that called themselves Panthers. The Panthers were unknown on a national level. So, when he comes** **out of prison, there's not only a national organization, it's on an international basis with international recognition with** **hundreds and thousands of people outside the prison waiting on him! Oh, the nigga just flipped out. It just went to his head** **with that megalomania [of] being Huey Newton, you see?** **So, in the beginning, everybody was just elated. It was just like when Nelson Mandela when he got released.** **"Finally, Huey's out; He's gon' put things back on the line." But not only didn't he put things back on the line, he took the** **things further than David did! Nigga gets a penthouse up there in Oakland, a cadillac, they started buying clothes, they got off** **into that cocaine, i heard they even put sistas out on the street! Them niggas just went crazy; started dressin' like Al Capone** **and a bunch of gangsters - moving on people, using brutality against people - just became bandits.** **So, We're out there, gettin' little vibes of what's goin' on here & there, not really understanding everything, but** **We're not going along with that. We got a order that, from now on, when you talk to international representatives or put out** **anything, Huey Newton is to be called 'The Supreme Commander'. Well, for us, that nigga done gon' crazy, calling himself** **the supreme commander, We ain't goin' for that. So naturally, We didn't do that, We didn't follow those orders, We** **continued the thing as it always was: 'minister of defense' if We had to talk about him. Then, a week or two later, We got an** **order changing the other order saying, "No, he's no longer the Supreme Commander. Say 'The Supreme Servant of the** **People'." We knew that he had just gone out there in left field, and We started having meetings trying to figure out what We** **were going to do, discussing all the contradictions & whatnot. We were about 25 at that time in Algiers.** **We didn't really know when or how We were gonna deal with it, but what happened was Huey had completely** **isolated us. Anybody caught communicating with us, i think maybe some of them were actually moved on, i don't know, but** **total communication was stopped. The only person who had a right to communicate with us was Huey, but We didn't really** **know what was going on.** **Finally, Huey called one night and told Eldridge, "Look, word's going around that maybe We're not seeing things** **eye to eye. Now, i'm gonna be on this live television show tomorrow morning, and We're gonna call you, and We're gonna** **talk on this live show, and We're gonna show people that everything is alright between us." So they hung up, and when he** **hung up, that's when We decided, "Well, this is it." We prepared a statement, and the next day they called, and Huey's on** **live tv and after the formalities, the speaker asked Eldridge, "Well, is there anything you want to say?" That's when Eldridge** **read the statement where We denounced the direction that Huey was taking the Party and all the things they were doing. On** **live tv! Huey was sitting there. That nigga went crazy! That's what broke the split out into the open. We couldn't allow that** **to continue, We didn't want people to think that We were going along with those things.** **So, about an hour later, Huey called me. He asked me, "What side you on, D.C.?", i said, "i'm against you." He** **laughed, "Hahaha. OK, i'm gonna crush you." About three days later, i got a phone call from Zayd in a panic, telling me that** **Robert Webb just got shot in the head up there on 125th & 7th avenue. Well, i went into a depression for about five days. i** **couldn't even talk, so really, when he said he was gonna crush me, he really got to me when he offed Robert Webb. Robert** **Webb was a wonderful brother. And Huey knew it, because he was such a nice brother, that at one time, he was Huey's** **personal bodyguard.*** /*/Q: There are certain events that happened involving the International Section that also made news in the United/*/*/ //States. Let's talk about some of them for a moment. Could you tell us a little about the two airplane hijackings, the// //one involving the $500,000 ransom. Can you tell us a little about that one?///* **A: Yeah, Roger Holder was his name, ex-Vietnam veteran -- he had flown helicopters over there, he really wasn't*** **affiliated with any organization or anything -- but his personal conscience told him to deal with that; hijack a plane. He wasn't** **very political, so his demands weren't real clear in the beginning. He was asking for the release of Angela Davis and a few** **other demands that appeared to be progressive. Finally, he got a plane to come on over to Algiers and join us. His girlfriend** **at the time, Katherine Holder, was with him. When he arrived, he was received as a hero in Algiers. Everybody was around** **him; i went to talk to his girlfriend. So, i asked her, "hey, what group you with?" She said, "Oh, i ain't with no group, i just** **came along for a ride." So that shows you what level that was on.** **As i said before, We didn't know that Algerians were in negotiations for these oil contracts. Naturally, they let the** **people in their country and they became part of the group, but they gave the airplane back, and they confiscated the ransom** **money. But, because Blacks didn't have confidence in the news media, there were people there in Detroit that didn't believe** **that they had given the plane back and the money. So they decided to do the same thing. They took a plane and came over** **with a million dollars ransom. But by that time, the Algerians wanted to put a stop to that, so in the beginning, they kept us** **separate from them. That was the McNairs, George Brown, George Tillotson, and another one called Knott. Finally, they let** **them get in contact with us, but naturally, they gave the money back and they gave the airplane back. The Algerians didn't** **want that kind of pressure; they wanted to put a stop to that. So, they created a very uncomfortable situation for everybody,** **and We knew by then that because the split had gone down and things were very tense there amongst us there in Algiers, that** **it was time to get out of there.** **Now after the split, the people on the east coast, including Sekou & Larry that were there in Algiers, decided that** **they didn't want to have anything to do with the Central Committee. Being a Central Committee member, that meant me too.** **Even though they knew that i was not part of all that stuff that was going on, they didn't want to make an exception. They cut** **me loose also. That hurt me pretty bad, so what i did was i resigned, and i was living out there in the suburbs of Algiers. But** **because We were there as a group, i didn't want to cause any political problems with the government or anybody, so i didn't** **make it public that i was resigned. So, i had been living out there since January. Roger didn't come until June; the other** **hijackers didn't come until September, so i really hadn't been participating in any of the decisions. But, by the time that last** **plane came, everybody just saw dollar signs. When i say 'everybody', i mean the others, not me because i knew they were** **gonna give that back too.*** /*/Q: When the takeover at Attica state prison occurred in September 1971, one of the prisoners' demands was/*/*/ //asylum in a non-imperialistic country. How did the International Section respond to this demand?///* **A: Well, We were very favorable toward it. We personally didn't do anything because Bobby Seale was on the scene*** **there, and We didn't have communications with anybody directly on the thing. But, if We had been contacted and anybody** **had been released, We could have welcomed them in Algiers. We still had our diplomatic status with the FLN, and We could** **have welcomed anyone there. That wouldn't have been a problem.*** /*/Q: What were the events leading up to the dismantlement of the International Section of the Black Panther/*/*/ //Party?///* **A: Well, all those internal dissensions that i was talking about. You see, after that last plane came over, everybody just*** **wanted out of there, and i'll explain why.** **They decided that they were gonna make some kind of move and put pressure on the government to give up that** **million dollars! Well, i came out from my suburbs where i was living to be at the meeting, and right away i told them they** **was crazy. The government is not going to risk the future of their country for a handful of niggas and a million dollars. So,** **they just told me to shut up, they didn't want to hear anything i had to say. i said, "OK, y'all keep my part." Pete O'Neal** **jumped up and said, "Anybody else feel like that?" i went on back home, 'cause i knew that if they did anything, they was** **gonna be in trouble.** **i had a listening post set up. Where i had radios tuned in on all the stations, even local stations in the states, and tape** **recorders & whatnot. So, i'm sitting there listening to the BBC news at one o'clock in the afternoon, and i hear a statement** **that Eldridge & the hijackers done put out condemning Boumedienne & the Algerian government. i knew he's done blown it.** **Within five minutes, i get a phone call from Larry Mack, "Call New York! Call New York! They got us surrounded by** **machine guns!" But i had a woman friend there at the house, and before i did anything, i got my guns, my ammunition, my** **stash, and i gave it to her and said, "Get out of here, quick!". The bus stop was right across the street. While she's still** **standing at the bus stop, the police show up at my house. Because they didn't know that i had resigned, you see. But they saw** **that i was there by myself. They searched that house for everything, naturally they didn't find anything, 'cause my woman** **was standing there at the bus stop with everything in her bag & she managed to get away with it. So, they put everybody at** **the office under house arrest, and that night i hear sirens come again, and they brought all the hijackers and put them out there** **at my house to get them out of sight, and put us under house arrest with two policemen on the door. i could only go out to do** **shopping with a policeman accompanying me. Well, political interventions with the president and everything managed to** **calm down his anger for what they had done. Everybody was released from house arrest after the weekend was over. For all** **technical purposes, that was the end, it was just a question now of people getting out of there.** **Unfortunately, that coincided with the time that i had planned to leave. So all the plans i had put together to get out** **of there were blown away by all this house arrest & having police on the door. So, i had to choose alternative means and i** **managed to get out of there at the end of September. Really, i was not there when everybody managed to get away & go their** **own different ways. i went back in the beginning of '74. When i got back, everybody had already gone. i went back as a** **political refugee because the authorities there had confidence in me; they had known me, they had seen how i worked,** **naturally they gave me political asylum. They even helped me get an apartment & a job. i stayed there 'til 1977, all by myself** **as a political refugee.*** /*/Q: When you left the United States and went into exile, the BPP was a flourishing organization with national and/*/*/ //international support; less than six years later it no longer existed. How did it feel, and how did this affect you?///* **A: It was hard accepting and realizing the fact that instead of Huey straightening things out and getting the party back*** **on the road, that he had just taken it downhill. That hurt real bad. As far as i was concerned personally, when the split went** **down in February of '71, the party was over. The party as it had become known, was finished. They did all kind of little** **things trying to become a legitimate political party to get the support of the people, but really a lot of it was just to disguise** **all their criminal activities. They had become hoodlums & racketeering people. It had just become Huey's personal tool. It** **was over in February '71 with the split, and that hurt really bad. Because of all the comrades that had died & were in prison** **for the principles We had learned from Huey & Eldridge -- that was a hard blow. Really, it was like becoming an orphan.** **Like a lot of people with the communist parties disappearing all over the world, it's being like an orphan not knowing what to** **do; knowing that there's still stuff to be done, but not knowing what to do.** **So i had decided to continue the activities that i had been doing when i became the field marshal. i just cut off all** **communication with everybody, and i worked to leave Algiers and go back in and join up with the people i had been** **associated with. But unfortunately, you have this problem of survival. And everybody i know, everybody i know, got busted** **sooner or later, dealing with survival problems! i arrived there in the end of '72, by the summer of '73 i was all by myself.** **But i didn't want to live there just to be living there; i was only back to continue the struggle. i mean, going to the store to** **buy food or buy a pack of cigarettes and wondering every time i see a policeman if this is gonna to be it, if i gotta go down,** **well i didn't wanna go down just for personal survival. Going down for a struggle is one thing, i was there for that; but going** **down for personal survival? i didn't relate to that, so i left out again and that's when i went back to Algiers as a political** **refugee.*** /*/Q: How have you been able to cope?/*/ **A: Well, it hasn't been easy. There's two things i've learned: when War did that record "The World is a Ghetto", i*** **don't know if they knew the depths of what they sang. But really, it's true, the world is a ghetto, and Black people are** **considered on the bottom everywhere; there's no exceptions! Another thing, Che Guevara said, "Whenever you're in exile,** **consider yourselves in enemy territory."** **Now, like i said, in Algiers the government was very helpful. Helped me get a job, helped me get an apartment, and i** **was very very well treated. But you got the problem of cultural differences, which were very very strong. i lived seven years** **in Algiers, and the last day was like the first; whenever i went out of the house into the streets, "There goes the american!** **There goes the american!" It just wasn't possible to integrate, because i'm not a religious person especially; i wasn't going to** **become a muslim. i had been told several times by certain officials responsible for liberation movement people, "You** **become a muslim, all the doors will be opened." Well i'm not an opportunist on that level; i wouldn't make those kinds of** **compromises with my principles, so i was just isolated out there by myself. The cultural differences became so strong; the** **pressure became so great, that i had to get out of there.** **Now, i'll recount a little anecdote; it's funny, but it's tragic also: The Africa Cup -- Football in 1977. The only thing** **standing between Algeria & the Africa Cup was Guinea, the team from Conakry. The first match was in Conakry, and the** **Guineans beat the Algerians 2-0. There were some Algerians that attacked Black people in the street in Algiers, as a result of** **that football game. The doorkeeper at the job where i worked was a Black man - people came to work the next day talking** **about, "You don't come to the stadium for the return match." And talking about me (now these were supposed to be** **progressive people who had been to the school of fine art) - "If he hadn't done something wrong, he wouldn't have had to** **leave his country". i left work; i quit work right then & there. That was in February; i started moving to get out of Algiers. i** **wasn't ready to accept that kind of atmosphere from a country that had suffered so much from racism as they had from the** **French. i preferred to find some reactionary western culture (because i'm from a western culture myself) where don't nobody** **care about what i do. Well, the only other culture i had learned, being in Algiers, was the French culture. All the other** **foreigners that i had met, Algerians and French alike, were living in France so i decided to leave Algiers & come to France.** **That was in April 1977.*** /*/Q: How many Panthers would you say are in exile in various countries around the world?/*/ **A: Well, i don't really have an exact figure, you know. i know of about twelve personally, but i'm sure that there are*** **others because it just wasn't possible for me to know everybody.*** /*/Q: What does being an exile mean in terms of the impact on your life?/*/ **A: Well, it means being cut off completely from everything you know, everything you love. All your references are*** **completely blown away. Everything is new; you have to learn new rules all over again everyplace you go. Every culture is** **different.** **Frankly, everybody has the same problems all over the world -- survival: food, clothing, and shelter. And really,** **basically the only thing that changes is the culture & the language. But, some of the rules really (coming from the america** **that i knew, that doesn't seem to exist anymore!) are hard sometimes. France, for example: here, you have to have a national** **identity card; you always have to have your identity card on you. If you don't have your identity card, and if you're** **controlled, you can go to jail for four days automatically. Well, coming from the united states where there was no national** **identity card, that's like big brother for me. Here, you can't do anything without first having authorization or registering** **somewhere. i remember when i opened up a photographic studio in San Francisco in '64, all i had to do was go down to city** **hall, pay a dollar & a half, and register the name & pay my taxes. That's all i had to do. Here in France, it takes like three** **months to create a company. Three months of paperwork. And because they have so many social programs -- social security,** **medical care, retirement, old age pension & things like that -- the charges are terrible! For example, me working as a** **contractor; whether you work or not, every three months you have to pay something like $5,000 in charges to the retirement** **fund, the health plan, and things like that. So really, it's hard here. It's very, very, very difficult; on the survival level, that's** **the most difficult thing. Being outside of my element, i find survival on an economic level the most difficult thing.** **Because my attitude has never changed all these 22 years i've been in exile in terms of the struggle, i feel no** **different about the united states on that level. i'm just disturbed by the fact that i see things have deteriorated to the point that** **things are thousands of times worse today than it was when i was active with the rest of the comrades back in the '70s.*** /*/Q: What are some of the lessons that you have learned from the last 22 years of struggle & exile?/*/ **A: Well, for me the most fundamental thing that i've learned is the problem is the men & the megalomania. Every time*** **you look at organizations that try to get started and they fall apart, it's always because of the men struggling over power, and** **trying to get over their own program, no matter what it is. And, even when you look at history, history is nothing but that;** **struggles of men wanting to impose their way of seeing the world or protecting their power and oppressing other people.** **History is full of that. That's one of the things that i really try to get deep off into, studying history, pre-history, the evolution** **of man, trying to understand that phenomenon, to see what can be done to change that. Because the objective conditions** **today are a hundred times worse than they were when We were active; what's the reason that there's not people out there** **dealing with the problem? Because the men -- every time people get their heads together trying to get an organization you** **start having those megalomaniac struggles for power. That's the most fundamental thing that i've learned out here. As far as** **i'm concerned, that's the thing that We have to guard ourselves against. Anybody that wants to get organized, to get** **something moving again, they've got to create some means to controlling this tendency of men to struggle for power and** **their own personal aggrandizement.*** /*/Q: What are some of the concerns that you have now?/*/ **A: My concerns that i have now is that terrible situation that We find ourselves in in the united states and really, the*** **recognition and the understanding that it's no longer just a national problem. All the countries of the world treat their** **problems as internal & national, but really it's an international octopus that's calling all the shots. International finance** **capital; We have to recognize the situation like it is. People in London are deciding the prices of the cocoa and the precious** **metals that people all over the third world are producing; people in Chicago are deciding the price of grains, the wheat &** **everything that people are producing; here at the stock exchange in Paris, they're deciding the price of sugar. It's out of** **control; it's out of control of government hands. There is no national solution to the problem, it's really an international** **phenomena. Of course, much can be done on an internal level. i mean, it's a crying shame that inside a country that's socalled** **leading the western world like the united states, you have all those people living out there in the streets, whole** **families, 'cause they don't have the means to have shelter. There has to be shelter, the basic necessities of life for everybody.** **Any movement that starts out has to deal with those questions. Everybody has to have a shelter, everybody has to have a** **means to survive on a physical level. Then, when We get those things accomplished, then We can take things to a higher** **level. Those are my concerns right now.*** /*/Q: If you had one gift to give to the youth of today, who are becoming politically aware, what would it be?/*/ **A: Knowledge of what went on before, so people don't fall back & make the same mistakes again. That's one of the*** **one of the biggest problems i see today, the lack of continuity. People don't even know what happened last week, let alone 20** **years ago. So, any young organizations, people coming out there today, that don't know about all the mistakes that We made,** **they're gonna make the same mistakes again. A lot of people don't believe that you can learn from past mistakes, but i don't** **believe that. If We could pass on the knowledge on a mass level of what went on before, that would help those that are in a** **position to analyze and make decisions, see some of the things that shouldn't be done.** **Now, nobody has any answers to how to deal with this stuff today. Nobody's had to deal with it before, and you can** **see all the models that We had before, in the so-called progressive communist world, have just fallen by the wayside because** **it was trying to be imposed from the top. The people stayed where they were at. As soon as all those repressive measures by** **all the different regimes fell aside, all those ethnic struggles that were taking place 75 years ago sprung out all over again in** **all those eastern countries.** **What We have to do, We have to write the whole thing all over again. We have to start by coming up with** **something to deal with the economic problems of all those millions of people out there suffering from not having any shelter,** **not having means to eat, and no healthcare. i feel that personally, one of the solutions -- one of the solutions -- is that there** **needs to be a real true party in the united states that represents the needs of the people. Another party that really addresses** **itself to the needs of the people has to come into being. There's just too many people out there suffering that would support** **it. i feel that if it came along, anything that's really effectively dealing with the people's needs, the people are going to get** **behind it, 'cause the situation is terrible.*** /*/Q: There are Panthers that are still in prison: the New York 3, David Rice, Robert 'Seth'Hayes, Romaine 'Chip'/*/*/ //Fitzgerald, there's a Panther on death row: Mumia Abu-Jamal; there's Panthers still in exile: Michael Cetewayo// //Tabor, Pete O'Neal, Assata Shakur, George Brown, etc. Would you say there's a lot of unfinished business? Do you// //have any thoughts on what must be done?///* **A: Yeah, well there's definitely unfinished business. The reason that all these people are still in prison, and having such*** **a difficult time getting out is because of all these problems. Because the authorities know that people that already have** **experience, that have knowledge, if they can keep them off the streets, that's gonna leave the people out there floundering** **around. They can't bring that experience and leadership to the struggle. So, i feel that the maximum number of people that** **can be gotten together, that have consciousness of what is the actual situation, should get themselves together. The answers** **are not gonna just fall out of the sky; We've got to get our heads together and have a brainstorming session and see what We** **can come up with to start dealing with that situation. i feel that's the first step, people have to get themselves together. Put all** **those ideologies & ideological struggle and who has the best line with words out of the way. The people are suffering. That** **has to be dealt with; all those ideological struggles that just be wasting time, people be runnin' their mouths trying to prove** **who has the best line just with words, that has to be thrown in the garbage can. And all those megalomaniac men, struggling** **for power trying to get off their program, they gotta be put into a museum of history. People have to get their heads together,** **that have some kind of political consciousness, to try to come up with some solutions and put 'em into action and see if We** **can start moving to get something going to get some relief to the people. The people are suffering!*** /*/Q: Is there anything else that you would like to say?/*/ **A: Everybody, that's got any ideas to get some kind of relief to all those suffering people, move on it! Don't waste*** **your time, criticizing the others; if you got an idea, move on what you think is right! Stop spending your time** **knocking down the others 'cause you don't agree with what they're doing. What's ending up, ain't nobody doin'** **nothin'!*** /*/Q: Thank You/*/ **A: Right On!** **3/31/92**