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Jeffrey, Thank you for your carefully crafted response to my intentionally inflammatory comments. I had purposed them this way to see the character and integrity of the members of this forum. Thus far it has proven well. Apologies for entering your discussion with Randy without much review, as such, my comments were reactive of what appeared to be ivory tower perspectives on communicative technologies. With regard to your comments on building an isolated a VLE, I most certainly have issue. My platform is one of realistic constructivism. By using independent e-learning modeling, you are divorcing students from environments they will need to use effectively outside of a utopian school environment. Faculty and integrative technology staff would be better to teach students governance and responsibility in a public venue, where students need to take responsibility for sorting value from chaff. Otherwise students will not make a strong marriage between "effective use" and "casual use" when confronted with it post-Moodle or whatnot. Your points have not changed my opinion that old-school educators continue to make information and it's exchange proprietary. This is because many of them cannot fathom a classroom run and managed by their own students using the "instruments" (not tools) of information technology. If anything, the fact that you would segregate social platforms proves this very point. As I said before Twitter, Facebook, and the many growing real social networks are the place our students need to be. They are the real schools of 21st Century learning and since students are already gravitating to them become an easier venue to set up. My next post will discuss the details on process you so poignantly requested. > From: Jeffrey L. Jones <firstname.lastname@example.org> > > Christian: > I certainly welcome alternative viewpoints. However, I do take > issue with some approaches to the argument. My initial reaction to your > posting is that you need to spend just a bit more time talking about the > > tools, and a little less time trying to characterize the motives and > personalities of those advancing conflicting ideas. The latter almost > never gets to the heart of the discussion -- it serves to inflame > without > actually serving to inform. > But the most important point you miss is the difference between > "place" (Twitter) and "tool" (social networking tools, in this case, > micro-blogging). You will get no argument from me (or from Randy, would > be > my guess), that social networking tools are VERY useful to education. > This > is not an argument between Twitter and the face-to-face classroom. I'm > on > your side of that discussion. But Twitter, being a "place," has > characteristics beyond its presence in the categories of "21st Century > Tools," or "Social Networking Platforms," or "Online Interaction," or > "Web > 2.0." > There are lots of tools in all of these categories which aren't > "places." My question to you is...how much do you know about Moodle? > ...about Mahara? ...about ELGG? ...about > Drupal/Joomla/SharePoint/Umbraco/Wordpress? All of these platforms > support > various levels of social networking, even micro-blogging. But they're > not > "places," they're platforms. That means students can benefit from their > use, and you don't have to address any of the "place" problems that > Twitter has. They are software which allow you to support social > networking right within your own school or district. They aren't being > hosted by a commercial entity who isn't really interested in your > educational goals, age groups, or safety issues. They're hosted by you. > Of course, even though every one of the above are free software, > > they do require setup and maintenance. But our district's Moodle install > > (with Mahara plug-in) is supported by STUDENTS. It isn't really that > tough. The results is a platform which has very close to all of the > benefits of many of the categories I mentioned above, but with > absolutely > none of the security and commercial/cross-purpose problems of > open-Internet tools. > Since Twitter, Facebook, and their ilk are "places," they do > have > the advantage of popularity -- students are already there. But > interestingly, that fact makes them, as "places," less exciting from an > educational perspective. After all, since the history of educational > technology (as you imply) is one of avoidance, students have learned how > > to behave in these environments quite without the guidance of adults. On > a > conceptual level, that's interesting (maybe that's what you mean by > "Twitter is a school"), but the wretched excesses make it unlikely that > these "places" will ever be serious educational tools. There's too much > garbage there. But, again, that doesn't mean we have to give up on > SOCIAL > NETWORKING. We just have to give up on the idea that free, > commercially-driven, open-Internet, current-fad-driven tools can be > depended upon to deliver them. But we lose almost nothing but a little > sweat equity using free, locally-supported tools instead. > Again, you've made some substantial mistakes in characterizing > the > "skeptics" in this discussion. To make your argument, you need to > explain > how Twitter, in an educational setting and pursuing student learning > goals, is enough of an improvement over free or older existing tools to > overcome its problems, and demand our attention. Using popular tools to > leverage student motivation isn't a good enough argument for me, since > kids will pursue tools of interest to them, not you. That's one of many > reasons why I feel that Twitter, specifically, will not have much of a > shelf life. > Convince me that I'm wrong. > Jeff > Jeffrey L. Jones, District Technology Resource Teacher > Coordinator, Virtual Classrooms and Communications, Fayette County > Schools > Fayette's iSchool - http://ischool.fcps.net/ > The Point, a Fayette County Blogspot - https://edtech.fcps.net/blog/ > Fayette Co. Intranet on SharePoint: http://sharepoint.fcps.net > 701 East Main Street > Lexington, KY 40502 > (859)381-4124 > email@example.com > --- Edtech Archives, posting guidelines and other information are at: http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~edweb Please include your name, email address, and school or professional affiliation in each posting. To unsubscribe send the following command to: LISTSERV@H-NET.MSU.EDU SIGNOFF EDTECH