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To: H-NET List on the History and Theory of Genocide < H-GENOCIDE@h-net.msu.edu> I applaud the moderator of this list for having the courage to tell the truth about Israel's continuing apartheid and ethnic cleansing policies in Palestine without equivocation. What is offensive to me is that any critique of Israel's genocidal policies is called anti-Semitic (what a cheap shot but this ploy continues) and what I find more offensive is the denial of the Nakbah ("so-called Nakbah") and the mindless and tasteless repetition of the Zionist myths about Israel--the only democracy (Does Israel not sustain a vicious colonial occupation of a civilian population?), where Arab-Palestinians of all sorts are evacuated of all national-ethnic content as second-class citizens (how equal they are socially and economically in a state that defines itself as a Jewish state?), where Africans can achieve their "American dreams" (after they escape the lynching fest that happened last week in Tel Aviv), and where a rabbi has just issued a "fatwa" that killing gentile children is permissible if they might hurt Jews when they grow up (Israel's attorney general called this halacha not incitement). Yes, there are some good things to celebrate in Israel: and the diaspora the activists, people of conscience and intellectuals who are eager to save Israel from itself, who would not rest until Palestinians are treated with human dignity and respect to which they are entitled in their own state. Dr. Jamil Khader Professor of English Diversity Council, Co-Chair Stetson University Deland, FL 32733 <386-822-7366> From: H-NET List on the History and Theory of Genocide [ H-GENOCIDE@H-NET.MSU.EDU] On Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 7:00 AM To: H-GENOCIDE@H-NET.MSU.EDU Subject: Riedel: Lee: Genocide, Israel and Crimes against Humanity. > From: Felix Riedel <email@example.com> > Subject: Re: Lee: Genocide, Israel and Crimes against Humanity. > Date: June 3, 2012 8:44:30 AM CDT > To: H-NET List on the History and Theory of Genocide < H-GENOCIDE@h-net.msu.edu> > > ---------------- Message requiring your approval (213 lines) ------------------ > I find it disturbing to read such statements on H-net. "Given the state's > history of ethnic cleansing and > resilient strains of transferist ideology that continue to this day." > > Israel has a history of ethnic cleansing? There is a very controversial > debate between historians about the very few massacres and > counter-massacres that can even be debated as such and the conditions under > which they took place, for example see Morris, Gigniewski, Lewis or simply > wikipedia which has a good article about the so-called "Nakba". In no term > can it be stated, that the state israel as such has a "history of ethnic > cleansing", but it consists of people who suffered ethnic cleansing for > example of the arab Nations. > Also this vague umbrella concept "ethno-nationalism" does not fit at all to > israeli reality, where there are arab Israelis, Arab Jews, Druze, european > arabs, arab christians, european Jews, Israeli jews, and Israel gives the > first and only time in history an example of a state that has made an > African community state members and organized their flight from Africa not > to take them as slaves but as citizens. > Israeli society is not free from racism, but it has the most gay-friendly > capital around the world, the only country in the middle east where Arabs > have full citizen rights and even had a Druze Vice-President, an arab > chief-justice, so to discuss the nation most imminent threatened with > genocide themselves as "notorious genocidal" is simply a reversion of > victims and perpetrators. The incidents against refugees should be read in > a wider context: Egypt soldiers shooting refugees at will across the > israeli borader, Europe hiring Libyan crooks to maltreat refugees, Europe > having responsibility for the death of tens of thousands of refugees along > its borders - the main cause why refugees from Darfur and Somalia now go to > Israel, which is after all still the sole safe heaven for them around. > > best regards, > Felix Riedel > > > 2012/6/2 Alan Jacobs <firstname.lastname@example.org> > >>> From: sean lee <email@example.com> >>> Subject: Re: Genocide, Israel and Crimes against Humanity. >>> Date: May 31, 2012 10:25:25 AM CDT >>> To: H-NET List on the History and Theory of Genocide < >> H-GENOCIDE@h-net.msu.edu> >>> >>> This message was originally submitted by seanclee@GMAIL.COM to the >> H-GENOCIDE >> ------------------ >>> Dear all, >>> >>> To my mind, this list is not limited, strictly speaking, only to matters >>> that can be definitively defined as genocide. It seems to me that anyone >>> interested in studying genocide with any seriousness would also be >>> interested in studying its causes and precursors. >>> >>> That being the case, I don't think it's very controversial to say that >>> ethno-nationalism is very much related to the study of genocide. Israel, >> as >>> a state that is less religiously homogeneous than the US but is based >>> explicitly on religious ethno-nationalism, seems like a fairly germane >>> topic to me -- especially given the state's history of ethnic cleansing >> and >>> resilient strains of transferist ideology that continue to this day. >>> >>> The recent race riot (not to say pogrom) in southern Tel Aviv directed at >>> Africans (many of whom are refugees or asylum seekers fleeing ethnic >>> cleansing in Sudan) is a reminder of the dangers of ethno-nationalism: >>> >>> >> http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/african-residents-in-south-tel-aviv-targeted-by-second-firebomb-attack-in-two-weeks-1.428469 >>> >>> >> http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-tel-aviv-tensions-between-israelis-and-african-migrants-boil-over/ >>> >>> And this, I maintain, is a relevant discussion on a list whose academic >>> object of inquiry is genocide. >>> >>> Best, >>> Sean >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sean Lee >>> Graduate Student >>> Department of Political Science >>> Northwestern University >>> firstname.lastname@example.org >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Alan Jacobs <email@example.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Alan Jacobs >>>> H-Genocide, Editor >>>> firstname.lastname@example.org >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> I understand Port's criticism and agree that its my thinking Israel is >>>> committing genocide is very questionable. >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Port: In the past, I have publicly criticized the editor of H-Genocide >> for >>>> publishing pieces that equate Israeli policy toward the Palestinians >> with >>>> genocide. He has done it once again, this time in his comments >> following a >>>> link to a recent review by David Schulman in the NYRB. The review itself >>>> makes for disturbing reading about Israeli policy, and I am glad to have >>>> read it and to have learned more about the everyday abuses that take >> place >>>> in this troubled regionů." H=G log 2012-5-29 >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> I expect we are are all for eradicating genocide, unrealistic as that >>>> seems at this point in history. >>>> What seems reasonable it to posit genocide as a process, one that has >>>> incidental beginnings and escalates gradually from identification of >> "the >>>> other" by a government to small murders, larger ones, and so on to the >>>> killing as many as possible. And if this is a process we can identify, >> at >>>> the moment the "crimes against humanity" of Israel, should we not >> address >>>> ourselves to the issue before it become genocidal? Some say no, only >>>> genocide. Were we to stand by and do nothing in Darfur in the early >> stages >>>> of this genocide? How were we to know it would escalate as it has? Are >>>> think there were signs, or if you will symptoms, heading in that >> direction >>>> long before we could legalistically call it genocide. >>>> >>>> Israel's intent may not be genocidal but what concerns me is the abject >>>> racism of the settler movement, one that has captured the powers that >> be in >>>> the government. The statements are frightening, and also include murder >> of >>>> Palestinians and some Israeli citizens that support peace now and even >> help >>>> Palestinians physically. There are statements and actions that are very >>>> similar if not identical to what the Nazis did to "us". This is very >>>> painful and troubling for me to even think let alone write as a Jew and >>>> also as a boy who's pop was involved in sending moony to Irgun and >> weapons >>>> to Haganah 1946-8. I'm reading Beinart's "The Crisis of Zionism", the >>>> subject of the original posting [Troubling and Necessary Reevaluation of >>>> Israeli/Palestinian Tragedy, 2012-05-26] confirming some of my worst >>>> concerns. >>>> >>>> Whatever you opinions regarding Israel and the Palestinians should the >>>> list only deal with genocide, which means after the fact, or should we >> not >>>> consider it along a possible continuum before it "may" escalate to >>>> gargantuan proportions? >>>> >>>> Our web page begins: >>>> "H-Genocide is a discussion network for professional scholars, survivors >>>> of genocide, authors, historians and other interested people working in >>>> genocide studies and related fields, e.g. U.S., European, African, S. >>>> American, and Asian studies, to name a few. Discussion topics include >> the >>>> history, analysis, and theory of genocide, all genocides." >>>> >>>>> Perhaps we should change the last line to read "Discussion topics >>>> include the history, analysis, and theory of genocide, and possible >>>> genocides". What this means is that we go beyond ...analysis, and >> theory of >>>> genocide and assume a more activist role. Activist not only in terms of >>>> action but also analysis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jake